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Talk:Power Supply Unit

Revision as of 11:40, 20 September 2008 by Decayed.cell (Talk | contribs)

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Contents

New Wiki stuff

Massive cleanup

The psu categories are getting unweilding. so changing to a price based model.--Snoop-wiggles 16:22, 10 August 2008 (EST)

Hmm not sure about the descriptions on the price ranges. I thought that sorting them out by power output was pretty logical (still is currently like that) and users should refer to a power supply calculator to calculate the power supply they need, then find it in the power category and choose accordingly - --decayed.cell 10:40, 20 September 2008 (EST)

Antec neo HE psu's

--Snoop-wiggles 11:26, 24 February 2007 (EST) Well the talk page got wiped, thanks Agg! :D Anyways i've removed all antec neo HE psu's from list as i've seen enough reports that revision A4 (latest) is still have lots of problems for users. A couple of ocau and whirpool threads have users with issues, as do many in this silentpcreview users poll. http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27863&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=270 Sure selection bias is going to influence the percentages, but even then only 41% say it works no problems out of 200 votes, thats pathetic for such a high end range psu.

--You can copy the talk page over from the old Wiki if you like.. nothing got wiped, it just hasn't been moved over yet. http://www.overclockers.com.au/oldwiki - Agg.

done (my mistake was I typed url http://www.overclockers.com.au/oldwiki/Power_Supply_Unit and it said exported otherwise empty, but going to link manually works cheers)! --Snoop-wiggles 17:08, 12 March 2007 (EST)

Recommended units cleanup

Probably going to have to split high end up into another group (the 1kw + club or something), or get rid of a few units. --Snoop-wiggles 17:08, 12 March 2007 (EST)

Update

changed it round, modified it so 'the best' are highlighted rather than in their own section, added overkill (>850w/65A) section to group those 1kw monsters together. Still need to cull a few out, so only 'the best' are in the > 850w club. So far the 850w club has lost a few members such as tagan 1100w because they dont have '8pin' pcie connectors. If anyone has any suggestions / recommendations about what are 'the best' add them here for discussion.

So far its:
single/mid cpu: zalman 360b-aps (dual pcie connectors and sleaved - excellent psu runs my system great - opt 146 @ 2.9ghz / x800xt o/c)
single/high cpu: coolermaster xp 430w (bargain workhorse - no contest)
sli/mid cpu: antec earthwatts 500w (seasonic made quality, single 12V rail)
sli/high cpu: silverstone element 500w (cheap and good specs, good reviews, top value)
high sli: corsair hx520w (performs very well, cheapest high end modular)
top sli: corsair hx620w (again performs very well, cheapest high end modular - has run 8800gtx SLI / Q6600 o/c'd no probs)
G80/R600 ready: silverstone zeus 750w (rock solid) - this may change if a modular psu is as good - strider 750w isn't
overkill: silverstone op1000 (can't argue with the insanely good voltage regulation)


--Snoop-wiggles 15:39, 24 July 2007 (EST)

Old wiki stuff

new tables

I think we need to make a table of features for the power supplies... at table is easier to read off than a list :D

Looking good so far!

A few things theres quite a lot of psu's that aren't that great, eg fsp 350w only has 18A 12V rail so its not worth going for. Also needs an extra column for combined 12V amps (matters a lot more than individual rail specs). I'll make a few of those changes. Also i changed efficiency rating to pcie connectors, efficiecny is useful but run into consistency issue of some based manafacter quoted specs (exaggerated best case) verses proper measured ones from silentPCReview. Have a look at tweaked low end table see what you think.

I'll make some changes to other tables, for example psu's not in right sections. Antec neo HE 500w can run any SLI system including 7950gx2 yet is in low end SLI, while enermax noistaker 600w is dual 12V rail so no good for highest end SLI yet is in that section.

decayed.cell 23:17, 7 Nov 2006 (EST) Alright no probs. I put the power supplies in by looking at amps and wattage >< and borrowing some off What to Buy list. I don't think we need to add Active to PFC, PFC is PFC lol, its either got it or not. Then we have a bit more space to fill in more features. I also think the power supplies should be sorted by its use, rather than price. We can always add a price at the end. Additionally, I think the amps on each rail is not that important, rather the combined is and number of rails. Because when you get to the high end SLI table lol, 12V1 12V2 12V3 12V4

SnooP-WiggleSYep probably a good idea, as explained individual 12V rail specs don't mean much anyways. Not sure where you got the 17.5A / 22A figures for smartpower 2.0 12V rail specs, seems a bit low to me. I'll add in a price thing and get rid of individual 12V specs, just have combined 12V amps and number 12V rails. I'll cull out a few psu's from list for example ones you can't even buy in Australia anymore (ocz powerstream, fsp units). Davidhammocks guide is alright, seems a bit conservative though. For example he doesn't like modular psu's, yet Jonnyguru has done extensive testing to show the voltage losses are negligable due to modular interface.

decayed.cell 15:29, 8 Nov 2006 (EST) Its not low at all. You can still buy some of the FSP units, just StaticeIce them. Just look here. Same with the PC Power and Cooling units, you can still get them.

+5V, +12V1, 12V2 and +3.3V maximum output: 340 Watts max +5V and +3.3V combined output: 130Watts

Therefore, 12V1 + 12V2 = 340 - 130 Watts = 210 Watts. To get amps, 210/12 = 17.5 amps. Its a 350 wat power supply, what do you expect :D

SnooP-WiggleS Nope on most psu's, the individual wattages of rails add up to far more than total wattage rating. Eg antec neo HE 500w has 12V combined 38A or 456w, as well as 75.9W for 3.3V 85W for 5V about 20W for rest. That adds up to around 630w, well over the wattage rating. For a modern 350w power supply i'd expect around 25A or 300w (like silverstone 360w, enhance 350w, nexus 350w has), 12V rail ideally should be about wattage rating - 40w (matching how computers load up rails, most on 12V rail, 20-40w on rest).

I got rid of one of the pcp@c units because its not that good value $160 for a psu without pcie connectors, smallish 12V rail, the 1kw model will stay of course :). The fsp 600w/700w can't be bought so i got rid of them. I'd rather recommend the best value psu's then every single psu thats alright, since we'll end up with a list of hundreds of psu's.

I'll add in some definitions of what low end / high end SLI and cpu is, catagories need to be based on actual power consumption. Davidhammocks guide is a bit vague 'dual core' cpu's can be very power efficient, or very power hungry. same applies to single core cpu's. Its way too wattage rating centered. For example i've seen people run an x1900xt off s12 330w no probs (because its a high quality psu with decent 12V specs), yet he puts it in the 'integrated graphics only' section.

decayed.cell 17:11, 8 Nov 2006 (EST) Confusing. We could just remove the SmartPower 2.0 units... they seem to have crap specs. Also need to figure out to work out the combined wattage on the 3.3V and 5V lines. For example, my unit has 253W over 3.3V and 5V, and 360W on the 12V. Thats 613W~. However, right at the bottom it says 476W, even though 253 + 360 is way off.

By the way, use the ~~..~~ (without the two dots in the middle) to sign your name. However, we know for sure that getting the output wattage on the 12V rail, and dividing by 12 gives us the correct amount of amps. Take the Element. 432W on the 12V, 432 / 12 = 36A.

The fsp 600w/700w can't be bought so i got rid of them. - Yeah you can :D

decayed.cell 19:34, 8 Nov 2006 (EST) Still figuring out the amperage thresholds for each category HMM

Strider ST365 vs SmartPower 350

They're around the same price do you think one should replace the other?

SnooP-WiggleS Hmm maybe ditch the smartpower its $15 more, coolermaster 430w is better value now it has pcie connector

decayed.cell 15:36, 9 Nov 2006 (EST) Done

Neo HE 430 vs TruePower Trio 430

decayed.cell 22:22, 8 Nov 2006 (EST) The HE is only 6 bucks more but its modular and sleeved. Replace?

SnooP-WiggleS Go with the neo HE 430w, their both seasonic psu's same electronics. sleaved + modular is worth $6 imo

decayed.cell 15:37, 9 Nov 2006 (EST) Done

Neo HE 550 vs TruePower Trio 550

decayed.cell 22:26, 8 Nov 2006 (EST) Again, only 7 dollars or so more, replace? Corsair 520 unit seems really really pricey

SnooP-WiggleS Go with the neo HE 550w, their both seasonic psu's same electronics. sleaved + modular is worth $7 imo. Yeah corsair is rather pricy, probably ditch it since its a seasonic, s12+ 550w is as good and cheaper.

decayed.cell 15:37, 9 Nov 2006 (EST) Done and done

FSP Epsilon vs OCZ GameXStream 600

These two are around the same price too... but the FSP gives two more amps and 100 more watts. Replace?

SnooP-WiggleS Well fsp epsilon can't be bought locally unfortunately, so just have gamextreem. O wait...it can! :)

Psu categories

SnooP-WiggleS Heres what i suggest:

under 400w / 28A, good for any videocard, but only mid range cpu's (core duo, athlon64, NOT P4).

400w/single vcard catagory: for P4 overclockers that don't care about SLI

next category: 30A+/400w or so that can handle up to 7800gtx SLI with core duo/P4

next category: 35A+/500w that can handle x1900xt crossfire or 7950gx2 quad SLI. these lot and beyond can't be dual 12V rail unless they are x1900xt certified.

next category: 40A+/550w: x1900xt crossfire + high end P4 overclocking

last category: 45A+/600w: overkill/insane :) (crazy phase change overclocking everything to max)

Based off: allow 100w for a mid range cpu, 200w for P4 or quad core (inc some o/c) allow 150w for single high end videocard (inc some o/c) allow 200w for mid range SLI (7800gtx and under), 300w for high end (inc some o/c)

Add them up, give a bit of headroom.

decayed.cell 17:11, 10 Nov 2006 (EST) Bugger Two 8800GTX's will pull 512watts by themselves at stock

SnooP-WiggleS Slightly bugger, though Guru3d don't realise (or don't care) that PSU's are rated by how much power they can deliver, not what they draw 240VAC from the wall (inc psu heat losses). Assuming a 75% efficient psu, thats 384w DC draw, which is still pretty damn insane, a top quality 550w psu would be a good idea to handle that. I'll do some updates. Xbitlabs reports an 8800gtx drawing 143w peak each, about 20w higher than x1900xtx.

decayed.cell 10:30, 11 Nov 2006 (EST) So what do we do rofl

--Snoop-wiggles 16:03, 11 Nov 2006 (EST) Revised catagories allow extra 50w/4A@12V for 8800gtx sli

first 4 should be ok

next category: 40A+/550w: twin 8800gtx / x1900xt with normal cpu's like core duo / athlon64

last category: 45A+/600w: 8800gtx SLI + high end P4 overclocking

last category: 55A/700w: overkill / insane

decayed.cell 17:25, 11 Nov 2006 (EST) Unfortunately, we couldn’t measure the power consumption of the GeForce 8800 GTX because our testbed with a modified Intel Desktop Board D925XCV turned to be incompatible with Nvidia’s new card. The system started up and initialized successfully and began to boot the OS up, but the graphics card didn’t output any signal to the monitor. So, we have to quote Nvidia’s numbers here. So technically X-Bit haven't measured anything.

--Snoop-wiggles 19:22, 15 Nov 2006 (EST) Anandtech have http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2873&p=7 About 5-15w higher than x1900xtx except for sparkle since it has a peltier (measured values are on 110VAC side, so include psu heat losses). 8800gts isn't to bad about 5w higher than 7900gtx.

SilverStone Zeus ST75ZF vs Thermaltake ToughPower W0117

The SilverStone is 8 dollars more. Replace?

There both good, some people don't like thermaltake so probably leave em both in

Coolermaster iGreen RS-500-ASAA vs Enermax FMA EG565P-VE

The Enermax gives one more amp and 35 more watts. Only two dollars extra. Replace?

--Snoop-wiggles 10:07, 11 Nov 2006 (EST)iGreen has an extra 12V rail but, so will handle higher end SLI systems better probably. They're both nice psu's

PSU removals

--Snoop-wiggles 10:31, 11 Nov 2006 (EST) I removed enermax noistaker 600w since SCPR didn't give it a good recommendation, and at $190 not that good value http://www.silentpcreview.com/article610-page6.html

And since silverstone strider 560w is not as good as zeus 560w, and costs more, that one went to.

decayed.cell 10:42, 11 Nov 2006 (EST) Just realised xD

Coolermaster iGreen RS-600-ASAA vs SilverStone Zeus ST56ZF and Antec Neo HE 500

The latter two provide the same amps, but a little less wattage. However, they're both cheaper, and the Neo HE offers a modular interface. Replace? Just doesn't seem as good value as the other two.

--Snoop-wiggles 19:33, 15 Nov 2006 (EST) I agree, coolermaster 600w is gone.

Active vs Passive PFC

From xbitlabs, i noticed passive pfc aint worth jack, improves power factor to maybe 75-80% from 65%, nothing like active PFC which is usually 99%.

typical 'no PFC' model ~0.65 http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/atx-psu5_11.html

Typical 'passive PFC model' ~0.77 http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/foxconn-hiper_5.html

Typical active PFC model ~0.99 http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/atx-psu6_2.html

So therefore its probably best to change any refs to PFC to A/PFC and untick PSU's with just passive PFC, as they're still gonna load up your UPS a lot more than active PFC models.


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